it might be a good thing if they all run on j2me (or atleast some standard) and actually follow that standard :)

recently we checked out the hip-top devices because we figured they had a very great distribution system (on the handset!) but it simply wasn't possible to just run the generic j2me code and at the end of the day it was simply another phone requiring new tweaks and testing.

from a business point of view, the more people play "pick-up and go" games inbetween daily tasks, the better obviously.

but for developers let's just hope these gadgets will stick to standards and not modify them.

in a few more years all these gadgets are the same thing, all in one : mp3-player, pda, phone, internet, chatting, games,etc,etc.

Agree with Pascal on the last paragraph:
"in a few more years all these gadgets are the same thing, all in one : mp3-player, pda, phone, internet, chatting, games,etc,"

With Flash (Lite) support in mobile device web browsers becoming more standard, perhaps we´re on our way towards an era with one true standard, just like in the web. Lesson to be learned: Flash is nowhere near the best technology around, yet it is the most widespread. Why? The development with Flash is "easy to learn, yet hard to master". The end-users (consumers) in web find Flash easy to install -- quite automagic actually, unless company firewalls are blocking.

Yes, there are other plug-ins, even Adobe/Macromedias own Shockwave favoured by many, but statistics are favourable to Flash.

Today, the Flash (Lite) in mobile devices is not widespread compared to J2ME, with only a limited device support for Flash Lite. It seems that no-one who has based all their business on for example J2ME, wants to hear there's a possible rival that might have a grave effect. If we were to rely all of you business on Flash Lite (when it has reached a position of standard), we'd be eager to close our eyes for other possibilities, for natural reasons.

J2ME (and even more, Symbian) is capable of things Flash Lite is not, nowadays. In the upcoming years, it's hard to see that Flash Lite could replace J2ME on all fronts. But maybe that is not needed, if game development wise casual games is the Holy Grail instead of hardcore gaming (don´t know if it is, as nobody else does -- we'll see).

So the topic -- new devices?
If, when, we see a convergence of devices (essentially PC functionality on the mobile devices), Flash is seemingly a potential triumphant technology, despite of its limitations.

The things that decide the faith of Flash on the mobile are:
a) Adobe's short term revenue greed (revenue of Flash Lite licenses based on number of devices sold that have Flash Lite preinstalled, instead of free distribution like with Flash on the web [or otherwise organized, that does not effect the end-user, like OTA firm/software upgrades])
b) The use of web on the mobile (not the wap or "tailored to mobile devices" web) fails to succeed with consumers (meaning, after the data transfers are integral part of every mobile device bought, and the 3G and faster networks are globally reachable)

Ok, it's easy to carry on arguing with myself :), and it takes an awful lot of time. Let's exchange thoughts: I happen to believe that Flash Lite will make a difference, but it will not replace all other technologies around. There's a place for everyone, and Flash on the mobile might just take a leading role at some point in the future.

Br,
Miikka
CEO
Aniway Ltd.

Correction to the 4th paragraph:

"If we were to rely all of _you_ business on Flash Lite (when it has reached a position of standard), we'd be eager to close our eyes for other possibilities, for natural reasons."

...of course meant "all of _our_ business".

Miikka

The best thing about being a smaller developer myself is that no matter
what the platform or media is at the end of the day I am able to adapt
the engine code quickly to the target.

Basically I do hope that Flash Lite will become popular but of course we just
don't know if it will be.

j2me is still with us for a few years yet but you do have to wonder that we
have already reached the limit of what it can do in reality and that makes for
a lot of rather samey published product in the mobile games arena.

I am looking forward to the day that we can all move on and make more revenue
from it, as for now in the most part; there is just too much product to go round on
j2me with not enough consumers buying it (or indeed even knowing how to!).

There is room for all of us here but what hope is there left if we all keep releasing
j2me titles into a crowded/overflowing small (on global population basis) pot of actual
paying consumers.

Therefore I also hope in the future that Flash Lite will somehow offer the ability for the
consumer to download and use software more easily than j2me currently offers whilst
allowing more interesting and improved game design.

Just how many versions/themes can you write Sudoku in j2me for god sake (5 in my case alone!).

It's either that or we all stick with j2me and the big hitters sink cash into consumer
awareness/learning programs of some sort to increase the consumer mass that actually
pays for and downloads games including new users who don't know how else I see the
whole industry as not doomed, but rather claustrophobic in size regards future growth
and revenue potential.

I apologise for all the line breaks above as I composed my blog contribution in an external editor and then pasted it in :P

Ciao

First numbers. Numbers of iPod don't even get close to the number of mobile phones sold.
Nokia sold 10 N-series in few months. I do not think iPod will be able to reach those numbers .
Flash Lite is great becuase the development time/cost is reduce drastically and a developer can focus more on usability and experience.
I do not see J2ME developers shifting toi iPod development. J2ME is standardize, all mobile phones have it.

Also, this is something that everyone forget it all the time, having an iPod means to have a computer. Without the syncing the iPod is dead!
I think this is the major reason of why mobile developers will stick with mobile phone development. Their content can be bought and used without the need of a computer. I personally think that Flash Lite has the chance to have a great impact on mobile content, but it will take sometime as J2ME did at it's early stage.

Alessandro

Flash has been available on Symbian since it was ported back in 1999. It's consistently failed to reach the mass market, despite being excellent. I think this is down to Macromedia pursuing some fairly baroque commercial models (charging end-users for the player?), and to their tight control of implementations - the latter meaning that whilst quality of Flash players is high, they're just not out there in sufficient numbers.

Like it or not, J2ME is where it's at today. It's not perfect, but comparing the future promise of Flash everywhere to the reality of J2ME today isn't an apples-and-oranges comparison.

Hi,

I'd like to add the great thing about all these new devices is the ease of porting to them. We created a game in two months for two devices at the same time, which simplified the crossover. The game is written for both a Nokia 6680 and an iriver clix (which handles animation much better than the phone). If we had tried to do the same in J2ME it would have taken us 4-5 months. With new additions like the CHUMBY coming out the market will only grow exponentially for us flash lite developers. There is a tidal wave coming and we're all paddeling out ; )

woohoo!